Today we have an urgent and important conversation with members of the NEA Staff Organization, the union of staffers at the National Education Association, who have been locked out of their workplace by NEA management for the past four weeks. The NEA, representing over 3 million members, is the largest union in the country. Staffers working for the NEA have been bargaining for higher wages and fairer treatment by the union, and have instead been locked out of their workplace after a 3-day ULP strike a month ago. We’ve brought on former educator Rowena Shurn and national board-certified teacher Ambereen Khan-Baker, both of whom are NEASO members and Senior Policy Program Analysts at the NEA, to talk about the lockout, what it means for a union to engage in union-busting tactics with their own staff, and how NEASO members are keeping each other’s spirits up on the picket line.

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Featured Music…
Jules Taylor, “Working People” Theme Song

Studio Production: Mel Buer
Post-Production: Jules Taylor

Transcript

The following is a rushed transcript and may contain errors. A proofread version will be made available as soon as possible.

Rowena Shurn:

Good afternoon. I am Rowena Shurn, a senior policy program analyst at the National Education Association for about five and a half years now. I was a previous educator in Maryland, prince George’s County, where I was on the board of directors of P-G-C-E-A, which was my local affiliate in my state board, MSEA as well. And currently also a doctoral student along with my colleague who’s going to fiercely introduce herself in a moment. And so we are rocking and rolling in so many ways.

Ambereen Khan-Baker:

And hi everyone, my name is Ambereen Khan-Baker. I am a National Board certified teacher renewed. I am a senior policy program specialist and analysis in teacher quality in the Center for Professional of Excellence along with Rowena here. And my job has been focusing around supporting affiliates and organizing professional learning. So how do you create professional learning? How do you create systems and structures for it? Previously, before coming to NEAI was a special ed and English teacher for about 13 years, taught all over Maryland and DC and became really active in my union as a coach. And so that was for my entry away, and I was a teaching fellow for a year before coming to NEA.

Mel Buer:

Welcome back everyone to another episode of Working People, a podcast about the lives, dreams, jobs, and struggles of the working class today brought to you in partnership within these Times magazine and the Real News Network produced by the always wonderful Jewels Taylor, and made possible by the support of listeners like You Working People is a proud member of the Labor Radio Podcast network. And if you’re hungry for more worker and labor focused shows like ours, follow the link in the show notes and go check out the other great shows in our network. And please support the work we’re doing here at Working People because we can’t keep going without you. Share our episodes with your coworkers, friends and family members. Leave positive reviews of the show on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and reach out to us if you have recommendations for working folks that you’d like us to talk to.

And please also support the work we do at The Real News Network by going to the real news.com/donate, especially if you want to see more reporting from the front lines of struggle around the US and across the world. My name is Mel Buer and today we have an urgent and important conversation with members of the NEA staff organization or niso, the Union of Staffers at the National Education Association who have been locked out of their workplace by NEA Management for the past couple of weeks. The NEA representing over 3 million members is the largest union in the country. Staffers working for the NEA have been bargaining for higher wages and fairer treatment by the union and have instead been locked out of their workplace after a three day ULP strike a month ago. I’m so glad that you both have come on on such short notice.

Talk about a really important struggle that’s currently happening with the NEA. I’d really like to dive right into the conversation, but first I just want to make a point of clarification for our audience. Some of our audience members may not know that there are staff unions at unions, union locals, international union offices are themselves workplaces often with the cadre of union staffers that are employed full-time by the union. These folks may be full-time organizers, comms folks, individuals who are kind of keeping the union, whether it be a union local or an international union running smoothly. And often these locals and IUs across the country, they are themselves represented by their own union, which is what is happening here with the NEA. The N-E-A-S-O is the staff union that has what, 350 members and just like any other workplace staff unions will bargain contracts with their employer, in this case the National Education Association.

So that’s just kind of a point of clarification for our listeners who may not quite understand where this is coming from. Every worker deserves a union including workers who are employed by unions themselves. So just to clarify that at the start, let’s just start off Rowena, if you could, for the members of our audience who aren’t really familiar with what’s been happening at NEA, could you give us a short rundown of the events that led up to this lockout of which it’s now what been four weeks since the start of the lockout? Yeah, if you’d like to start there.

Rowena Shurn:

Today is day 21 of the lockout. Wow. We began negotiations back in April, if I’m not mistaken, since from April until May 31st is when our contract actually ended. We could not come to agreement on everything. There are segments of our contract in which agreement were reached, but then there are certain parts of it in which agreement wasn’t met, if you will. And so in June actually our Center for Professional Excellence, along with two other centers had a one day ULP strike. And basically that’s an unfair labor practice. And so something took place in which we were like, that’s not okay. And that was around the end of June when that happened. And then negotiations continued and at some point we received updates around how over time would work for our representative assembly and a couple of other things. And they were outside of the win, which we proceeded with our contract in previous years years.

And so it resulted in us calling for a strike July 5th through seventh as well. And what folks saw on the news was absolutely unfortunate it because one of the things that you talk to most of us, they’ll say that this is a calling. This isn’t just a job for us, this is a career. This is a profession. We dedicate our lives and our heart to this work because we believe in education. All of us attended school and we thoroughly believe in the right to education. We believe in the right because that is a part of freedom. Education literally liberates you. It gives you access to so much past, present, and future. And so for a lot of us, it wasn’t easy. I am sure I speak for my colleagues when I say that that wasn’t an easy place to arrive at, particularly when you believe in the very vision of great public school.

And that’s something that we feel that every student should have access to. And so when Sunday night, July 7th, all of us in our personal inboxes received a message from the executive director telling us that we would officially be locked out starting July 8th. And that’s where we’ve been since then locked out from working with our members, locked out for making those connections. And currently we see the political climate and our membership group will be supporting this. One of the things that’s really interesting is that most unions have a professional learning aspect of it, and that’s the work that Amber and I do. We look at the career continuum from those who are interested in becoming teachers to those who are veterans and experts and accomplish at their work. And so this entire time we’ve been forced to not work with our folks forced for the work to be left undone and untouched. And that’s really been difficult.

Mel Buer:

I think you bring up a good point, and Amber, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this. I also, I’m a former teacher. I taught higher education, so I worked as an adjunct instructor at state colleges teaching composition and got a crash course in workplace conditions and how management often will take this idea that teaching as a career as a vocation is really about the, if you love what you do, you’ll never work a day. This is about the students management likes to kind of use that as a way to not hold up their side of the bargain sometimes to allow working conditions to deteriorate and to say, well, you’re in it because this is such an important thing. And so when you are actually sitting in negotiations and you are asking for rightfully asking an improvement to wages or overtime pay or any of those things that would make it easier and more enjoyable for you to be able to do your job effectively, they often just will hand wave it away.

And I think especially when it comes to, and this is more the question for you aine, this lockout seems to have come as a complete surprise, especially after you sit through weeks of bargaining where you understand that hopefully both sides are coming to the table in good faith, that they want to come to a conclusion that will be a contract that works for everyone. And when things start going sideways and you’re trying to use your leverage, something that a union should know is part of the sort of tool in the toolbox, their response is to lock you out and union bust. And I think the question here is why is it so important for a union like NEA to walk the walk, which is what you’re asking them to do in negotiations? What does it say about the NEA that they would rather lock out their workers instead of bargain fairly with them?

Ambereen Khan-Baker:

Mel, I really resonate with what you said about as teachers and I have had these conversations and we’ve had these experiences as teachers where you are expected to work all of these hours outside of your day to grade papers. I grade so many English papers on the weekends on weeknights with no pay. And there is this expectation when you do it for the kids. And a lot of our leadership roles in our districts were voluntary. If we wanted opportunities, we had to volunteer more of our time to do that. And that was a shift I saw in leading activities and professional learning in our union. It was also there was some compensation involved, but there was plenty of opportunities. And these were opportunities that I had coached by my colleagues in our bargaining unit in Niso, and that was so important because that helped me become a teacher leader and helped me grow in my profession.

And so going to your question about what does this say about why this is so important right now? Lockouts are really rare and lockouts are something that’s in the boss’s playbook. It’s a tactic that bosses and corporations use to oppress suppress their, it’s not something a union should be doing to another union and we as the largest union in the country, we need to be modeling the practices of joint labor management collaboration. We need to be modeling the practices of how we should collaborate and how we should care. This culture that we create in our organization is so important because everyone is looking at us right now. Every single district is watching what’s happening right now because these are some of the tactics that they will use. And that is one of my biggest fears. I think one of the ramifications is that this is something that we’re going to see in with our local unions and what’s that as they’re bargaining, that if their district can lock them out, they could.

And so we’re normalizing has normalized this practice of locking out your staff and it has gone on for four weeks this extent of time and the threat of taking away our insurance really demoralized and impacted our emotional and social wellbeing to such an extent, I got sick as a result of this. I’m literally getting a prescription right now because there’s so much trauma that we are experiencing that’s impacting our bodies right now. And this isn’t the message we should be sending. It should be that we care for each other and I have absolute hope in our members. I know that they are the ones leading our union and I have complete hope and solidarity in this work, but it’s something that we really need to emphasize is that we have to care for each other and there’s just this lack of, I think empathy and humanity and these actions by any day over the past few months. That’s just very concerning.

Mel Buer:

I also want to throw out to you, and I do, again, I want to kind of underscore here for many of our listeners who maybe have not been through a contract negotiation before, I’m also a member of a staff union here at the Real News. Our negotiations, thankfully were not like the ones that you have gone through. They happened pretty quickly, but negotiations are tough and having to have a conversation about what you can do to materially improve working conditions and have this back and forth requires openness, honesty, and empathy across the table. And oftentimes management doesn’t do a good job of making that apparent. Right. And so I really, again, it’s disappointing to see a union like NEA that represents what over 3 million workers, who has this decades long experience and what contentious bargaining looks like, what good bargaining looks like, and not be able to apply those skills with their own staff union. Rowina, I wanted to have you jump in and get your thoughts about what it means for the union to walk the walk and why it’s important to continue to pressure them to live up to the values that they espouse every day. I’m

Rowena Shurn:

Glad you asked that question and to contextualize it a little bit, and I’m sure that within education folks, this will resonate. Nearly about 30% of our union members have second jobs, and I don’t know if folks really realize that because there’s this seamlessness of the work that we do that you don’t even know. Some people exist in the context of it gets done. It’s almost the invisible hand sometimes in the background. There are so many folks that Reen and I rely on so that we can help members be great. They may see Amina and they may see Rowina, but behind Amina Rowina, it is this whole network that is moving seamlessly so that we can create the space for our members to be fully great and live in the possibility of who they are. And so to that, to do that, some of our folks are working second jobs.

I myself do too. You mentioned being an adjunct professor. I work as an adjunct professor as well. We have student loans too, and our loans are not forgiven because we work for a union. This is the level of commitment and dedication that so many of us have. And so this is why this is important. We haven’t had a step in 12 years for our contract. It’s been 12 years since folks have moved up steps. And so there’s so much that folks we don’t talk about because again, we become passionate about the work, we recognize the gifts that our members have, and so we show up. We really, really, really know the importance. Like I said previously of what’s going on, and sometimes I believe folks forget, they forget those of us who’ve been teachers. When some folks become administrators, they forget what it’s like being in a classroom with upwards of 42 students.

They forget what it’s like grading all of those papers, those assignments, right? When the narratives have to be edited and revised seven to 11 times and you have a student load of 1 25, they forget. And to some degree, some of the folks on that side, they’ve forgotten what it’s like to be in this space and they’ve been there. Let’s be clear. Everyone who’s on the other side, they’ve been in the spaces that we are in right now. And to some degree it’s like you’ve forgotten what it’s like. You’ve forgotten the moments and times that we live on the east coast, but we stay up to 10, 11 o’clock at night because we don’t want our members in Hawaii to always have to give up their Saturdays and Sundays. We want to stay up so that when they get off at four o’clock, I’m there virtually, but I’m there.

Or we don’t want our folks in Alaska to have the same experiences. We want them, the very thing that we work and advocate for on their behalf. We try to give to them as well as staff. And I really believe oftentimes you guys have forgotten what it’s like to be the frontline, to be in the trenches when the pandemic happened. If you could have heard our meetings and the ways in which as staff, we showed up big time for our members, some of us with our own health being compromised, but it was so important. Like everything they dealt with, we dealt with too. We were right there with them coaching them. We were right there mentoring with them. We were right there with them and talk about the systems and structures. We were right there with them in it. And we’re there day to day, we get the calls.

Some of my work is around national board and I just held a convenient back in May, one of the members, she became sick and had to go to the hospital who was right there with her. Rowina was there with her, Rowina was there in the background, working with staff members to secure it so that her family can get there. These are the things that we do, and we don’t do it in a context for the accolades. We do it because we see their humanity. We do it because we are people. We do it because we love and are gifted and we believe in this work. Again, it is a calling and we actually believe, trust us and value it. Show us what the value looks like because it’s okay at the end of conferences and things to tout and say, publicly we did a good job.

But it’s also showing it. And to say love is an action. It is an action, and we want to see the action with it, the action that demonstrates it. And so if it’s around the idea of fair compensation, then let it be fair compensation. Let it reflect the value of what we do for 3 million members. If it’s around the idea and a concept of work location, then let it be about a fair work location. There are so many aspects of what we do that members don’t see because we get it done. But at the end of the day, as Amber said, we want to be seen as complete full humans as well. I don’t want to have to work two jobs because I also have my student loans to pay for and in a doctoral program and paying for it as well. These things aren’t inexpensive.

But because I believe in what I do, I always want to make sure that my professional learning mimics and mirrors what our members are doing. I never want to be in a space in a place where I’m not knowledgeable. And so I continue learning too, but I can’t do that if I’m not fairly compensated for it as well to help in that. And so these are the things that I think sometimes that when we elevate in our career and our profession, we forget. We forget what it’s like at this space in this juncture. And so we’re asking them to remember and not only remember to demonstrate it, what it looks like in all authenticity. So that would be what I would add.

Mel Buer:

Amber, you had some extra thoughts to add.

Ambereen Khan-Baker:

Yes, Raul, you are saying it so perfectly, and both of us, we believe in this because these have been our experiences. As a teacher of color being in the classroom, I almost left the classroom my third year and going through the national certification process really helped me find my why and help transform me as a teacher. And then that was the moment where I decided to coach other teachers to go through the process, and I can only do that through our union and being part of a number of leadership opportunities. It was all through my union and they were supported by staff, like the role that Row and I are doing right now. And so we’ve had these lived opportunities, these lived experiences. We see firsthand why this work is so important because it’s influenced both of us as educators of color and as female educators of color.

The lack of opportunities that existed my district for me, having these doors open for me in my union was so critical to me staying in the profession. And so a lot of the members that we work with through our professional learning, we’re supporting them and their journey. We’re also ensuring that they stay in the classroom and this is just part of that experience and that journey for them so that they can become leaders in NEA and they can identify other Aines. Other Rowenas, right? They can identify other educators of color who can lead in the profession.

Mel Buer:

I think that’s a really great way to kind of segue into a really important question in relation to this lockout, which is to say what are some of the effects of it? What is not being taken care of? Because you have been locked out of your work. You heard some stories about some congressional staffers texting, NEA staffers and asking where these conversations, these emails, these phone calls were, and having to tell these congressional staffers that, Hey, our workplace has locked us out. We’re not doing this work. What other effects are you seeing? What work isn’t getting done? Rowena or Rine? Feel free to kind of clue in our listeners as to what the effect of a lockout like this is.

Rowena Shurn:

So when I say our membership, niso touches almost every aspect of NEA, it literally does. So yes, we have the congressional folks who work folks on the hill at the federal, state and local levels. We have our finance folks, literally the folks in the finance department, these are those folks. So the systems and structures that help run the organization, those are our members, the folks that work with private and public partnerships, whether it’s through our Center for Social and Racial Justice, those are our members, the folks that works with Campaign and Elections, those are our members. That’s a separate group from the Congressional Hill. So you have us, the Center for Professional Excellence, you have education policy folks. So the entire organization, we pretty much touch in some shape, form or fashion. More of it is direct than indirect. And so we are all getting the calls, the text messages, school is about to start and we’re not there.

The vice president, shout out to our vice president because I am from Oakland and a graduate of Howard University, so shout out to her for being a presumptive nominee for the Democratic ticket. All of that is going on, and that’s where we come in as well. And so when I tell you that we touch so much of the work that is done and the ways in which the public know NEA niso is so important to that work, we do so much. And again, we’re the hidden gems, the ones you don’t necessarily see because we’re in the background navigating everything to make sure it happens. I mean, most recently, and I want to shout out one of our colleagues who helps with education international, she was on her way back from a trip and her plane wasn’t canceled, but her phone was shut off when we initially went into the lockout.

That’s the impact. She was internationally traveling and her systems were shut down. Granted the plane, she still had that because she was connecting. But that’s the impact of this lockout folks have. We have a couple of colleagues who have kids with health concerns and issues that must see their doctors every month. That was a big thing about the health insurance. We have folks who have chronic ailments and they must see physicians regularly. That was the impact of this. We have folks with kids who are on their way to college this fall and imagine what that’s looking like right now because their parents are not being compensated for that. So there are so many ways in which our personal lives are being touched that it’s really unfortunate. And as Reen said, why would you make this a part of the playbook? Why would you do this? The largest labor union in the country and what you put in your playbook is to lock out. Imagine what this is going to look like for our staff who do this work with districts. What are they going to do now when districts, because it’s only a matter of time before some of them follow the lead and we look kind of weird. How do you tell us not to do it When you did it, you didn’t have a word for that, right?

Mel Buer:

Well, it’s part of the dirty tricks kind of playbook. When I was covering the Kellogg strike in Omaha, Nebraska, I used to live there born and raised. These are my neighbors who are striking. And I remember standing on the picket line with workers. This is a multi-billion dollar corporation who’s shut off the health insurance of workers who are fighting cancer and who are standing on this picket line really for each other. And you see some of the actions of NEA and you go, man, this is the kind of shit that monopoly men fucking corporate billionaires do. Why is this happening at a union? And unfortunately, this sort of management boss playbook, I’ve seen it happen with other union locals. It happened with SEIU 10 21. They locked out some of their workers like what I don’t know 15 months ago who were also in the midst of bargaining.

It’s like, what? To your point, Rowena, how did you forget this? Right? You know that you’ve been on the receiving end of some gnarly shit in your career that bosses have done this to you that have played fast and loose with your livelihood in service of what? Holding onto a little bit more power in the workplace. Come on now, let’s be real. Can we be humans with each other? Is there an adult in the room that can kind of remind you of that place to say that you are supposed to be standing in solidarity with the staff that you have hired to do this work? Shouldn’t that be the sort of baseline frustrating, right? Absolutely frustrating. Maybe a corollary question, Amber then is how is this beyond just the immediate sort of material and emotional whiplash from the lockout beginning at the beginning of last month, what has been the way that you have rallied your fellow workers within the staff union to hang on and really try and see this through to the end? What are some of the things that you guys are doing as a collective group to kind of keep each other from falling through the cracks?

Ambereen Khan-Baker:

A lot of things on the picket line, and one of the things I’ve been trying to do is taking pictures of my colleagues and capturing some of those stories. I was writing about some of my own stories and I as a relational organizer, I’ve always, I build relationships. I listen to people, I listen to their stories. I try to come from a place of empathy and heart because the stories are so key because this is how we remember our union values is through these stories of understanding our experiences. And so I’ve been trying to capture, and I feel like on the picket line, truly we are checking in on each. When I see a colleague not feeling well, I go to the side, I sit down with my colleague and I’m like checking in. What’s happening in your life? What’s going on? This is a collective trauma that we 300 of us are all experiencing the same time.

And so giving each other water, Gatorade, here’s a paper towel. Literally that whole collective chair is very critical online in our virtual picket line, which has been amazing. And kudos to all of our a virtual picket line captains. They are amazing. And there is an emphasis on self-care, on giving space to just talk through your feelings, but thinking strategically about our say or about our day or about our pay, what does this really mean and how do we want to move forward? It just does collective hope that I’ve been able to see. And on the picket line the other day, we broke out in, we call it the Miso Dance Squad, and a bunch of us, including myself and my tambourine, we were just dancing to all sorts of solidarity songs at one of our colleagues. Kai created a new newer version of one of our popular solidarity songs and made it to our context, and it just made us laugh and made us and this terrible, complete, horrible times.

It just made us feel like we belong to each other. And that is an incredible feeling. This is what it means to have union values. And I’m so grateful, so grateful that I’m not alone, that this is not a solitary journey, that at least we have each other, that we can laugh together, we can sing together, we can check in with each other because we’re not alone. And I’ve been also sitting down and talking to individuals. We’ve been sort of creating some affinity groups and some affinity spaces. A number of us have health issues. And it kind of goes to what we were talking about a little bit earlier, about some of the impacts of this lockout, like the whole threat of losing your health insurance. I sat down and I listened to my colleagues cry and I cried. I broke down and sobbed hysterically a few days because I have autoimmune disease that impacts my entire wellbeing.

My son has five autoimmune conditions and my husband has an aneurysm and a heart defect. And so the threat of losing our health insurance, I can’t even describe it in words, just for someone to mess with our health insurance, and I’m not the only one. So many of her colleagues went through that same experience. And I sat down and I listened to them. I listened to them crying. I listened to them talking it through. I talked through what are your COBRA options? And a lot of my colleagues couldn’t afford Cobra and they were going to wing it to hear that they were going to wing it. And so we were trying to try to make space for each other to just share out because that is how we’re going to get through this pain and that is how we’re going to feel and how we can able to move forward.

Rowena Shurn:

Mel, if I can add one thing, absolutely, please do. There is definitely a resolve with Niso that we will get through it together. There’s this togetherness that has, I’ve never experienced this depth of togetherness, and that’s the word we’re going to call it in my professional career, in the ways in which we are moving. And I’ve been in places where it has been incredible, but the togetherness of this largely because the depth of hurt that this lockout caused really, really motivated us to better connect with each other, to find out each other’s names. I mean, some of the basic things, we don’t see each other that much because we’re all over the country. And I don’t know if people really realize, yes, it is all the states. It’s also US territories. It’s also those who are part of D-O-D-E-A. We represent all of them. So at any time we can be anywhere.

And so we don’t always see each other and we’re actually learning about people. I’m like, I didn’t know that person was there. I just knew it got done. I didn’t know. But there is a resolve that we have, and there are folks who have been, and I’m going to speak for myself. I flew in for a month out on the line. I don’t live in the area anymore, but I flew out and was out on the line for a month because it was a resolve that if my colleagues are going to be out there for us, I need to be there with them. There are folks who are taking the trains in every day who are outside of the DMV area because they’re like, I have a resolve to be here to support my colleagues. We don’t want the ones who live close in proximity to feel like they’re carrying this on their own.

And so there have been folks who’ve flown to other places and done so many different things on behalf of niso that it has been an incredible, incredible journey. Not a way in which we would have wanted to connect, but nonetheless, this has been an incredible journey in ways in which we’ve got an opportunity to know each other, to build collective collaborations, not just around our work, but around people. And we are humans first. There are folks in which we’ve found out, hey, we share a love for pets. And so we have a community and affinity group talking about our pets and what are some things we could do because financial resources have been strained and what are ways around it to even support our pets? And so when I tell you that there is a connected collectivism and togetherness that is unheard of. It is real. It is true. And I don’t think that folks were really ready for that. They were not ready for us to be together. And let’s be clear, niso is together, one voice, one sound, our say our pay and our day is where we’ve been united on.

Ambereen Khan-Baker:

And I really have to say, it’s like really to all of the departments, all of the groups among our staff union, there’s so many talents I didn’t know. And it’s incredible. And one thing I want to really point out is that our work supports all 50 of our state affiliates. So and now you mentioned this about how unions have unions. Our state affiliates also have staff unions, and a lot of the local affiliates have different varying degrees of staff unions. And everyone is watching this because this is a tactic that can become normalized. And that is one reason why we cannot back down and we will not because we know what that impact could look like. I’ve never been on the picket line before. I’ve never been on strike. I have never been locked out, and I hoped no one ever experiences this feeling and I don’t want them to. And so we have to keep alive. We have to keep bargaining because this work is so important and it’s important to our members because I don’t ever want a single one of our members to have this experience. And our solidarity is just, it’s important.

Mel Buer:

Yeah, there’s something, and this is something that I’ve noticed. I’ve joined a number of picket lines prior to becoming a labor reporter when I was organizing with the IWW. And now that I spend a lot of time on picket lines, in general, reporting on labor struggles across country, and there is something unique and magical about the way that a picket line can just bridge the gap in between workers. I always think about this, strike a case New Holland. It’s a tractor manufacturer in Burlington, Iowa, and first shift and second shift and third shift workers had never met each other before. And now all of a sudden they’re sharing space on a picket line and they’re realizing that their neighbors, that they have things in common, that their kids go to school together, that all of a sudden, whatever management was hoping to do by keeping these groups separate from each other doesn’t matter anymore. The relationships are being formed in a way that are much more lasting than any lockout or strike will be. And so it’s really heartening to hear that folks with NISO are really trying to reach across that sort of divide and to stick it out. Because ultimately what this is, is sort of a, I don’t know, showdown. You’re playing a game of chicken with the management.

Ambereen Khan-Baker:

It’s

Rowena Shurn:

A shit show. That’s what it’s,

Mel Buer:

Yes. And the longer you can stick it out and stay together, the less leverage they have as this lockout goes on, because the more pressure is going to start coming from the outside, which is my final question for you both. What can my listeners, people who are interested, people who care about this struggle, what can they do to show support for your struggle? Is there a lockout fund for individuals who are in financial straits here, or is there a way that they can use their small little bit of power to pressure NEA management to really get back to bargaining in good faith in reopening the doors to its workers? What can folks do?

Rowena Shurn:

So the first thing they can do is go on a website, niso matters.org, N-E-A-S-O-M-A-T-T-E-R s.org. And on there they can sign up to be allies. And we have a list of things that they can do to support us. Also on, there’s a link to our GoFundMe for the strike fund as well. And we want to say thank you. There has been such an outpouring of love and support from our members and other stakeholder communities. It has been unreal, and I think Amber and I both can attest to it, the dms, the text messages. Are you okay? I saw the person besides you, do they need something? It has been phenomenal. The way that our folks have responded, you all are making it so that we can do this. I really wish that our members understood. The reason why we’re able to do this is because of the love outpouring support that we receive from so many people, which has been, I couldn’t even fathom it. As we said, this is not something you want to go through, but if you have to go through it, this is the way to do it. But definitely need, so matter.org is where they’ll get all of the information on how to connect with us on all of our socials because we want to make sure we take care of everyone as well. And so that is definitely a way to do it. And I’m sure Amber is going to add some more S sauciness to it.

Ambereen Khan-Baker:

S saltiness, yes. One, if you’re not part of a union joining union, that’s super important because there’s a bigger picture here with the labor movement. And then just to add on to what Rowena X really amazingly said is look at us on social media. You can follow us on X, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, but a number of us in Niso are actually, and you can follow me at Amber and KB on X and on Instagram uplift our messages. What we’re trying to do is share our stories, share our experiences. So if you have a social media platform, please by all means, share posts, whatever you like. We have been just trying to get this message out there so folks can understand because there are messages from our management and what they want to control and what they want to say. And we really want our stories to be out there.

Members can, obviously, they can write letters. We have on our website that Rowena mentioned, they can send letters to governance and any leaders expressing their support. But members can also write letters with their locals, affiliates, with their state affiliates or any group of members and just letting them know. And any organization can send letters. And so feel free on behalf of your union, express your concern or on behalf of a group of individuals, express your concern. Why do you think this is important? Urging the end of this lockout, but also to negotiate a fair contract. These are just basic union values and so remind, let’s remind everyone what our union values are.

Mel Buer:

Thank you so much, you both for coming on and talking about this. This is extremely, extremely important struggle. I hope that NEA comes to their fricking senses and ends this soon. And in the meantime, anything that we can do to help keep your spirits up and keep this moving in a positive direction, we’re here for. So thanks so much for taking the time to chat and don’t be a stranger. I really hope you come on the show again soon to talk about the cool things that NEA does once this block out is done. We

Ambereen Khan-Baker:

Would love to. We would love to and just want to thank you ma so much for having us, for hosting this podcast, for listening, and for all of you listeners, just for taking time to listen to our stories here. It means so much to us and we’re very grateful for everyone’s solidarity, for everyone’s support.

Rowena Shurn:

I echoed the sentiment and the only thing that I would add is we would not be able to get through this without people like you, Mel, and I know the magnitude of your just willingness to hear us. And that’s what it is about voice. It’s that someone is out there listening and someone hear us and they recognize and notice that we are here and that’s important to us. And so we heartfelt say thank you for this opportunity to hear us, to listen to us, and to make sure that the public knows that we are people back here and what we want is to be valued and we want that value demonstrated. So thank you all so much.

Mel Buer:

That’s it for us here at Working People. I wanted to again, thank Rowena and Ambereen for taking time out of their busy picket schedule to talk to me about this important struggle. I want to do more of these conversations and we want to keep talking to more folks, union and Non-Union and getting more perspectives from you. We want you guys to reach out to us, give us your thoughts, send us a tip, leave a comment, send me a message at mel@therealnews.com with ideas and tips so that I can keep pulling the veil back on the important struggles in our contemporary labor movement. And as always, I want to thank you all for listening and thank you for caring. We see you back here next week with another episode of Working People. And if you can’t wait that long, then go subscribe to our Patreon and check out the awesome bonus episodes we’ve got there for our patrons. And please go explore the great work we’re doing at the Real News Network where we do grassroots journalism, lifting up the voices and stories from the front lines of struggle. Sign up for the Real News newsletter so you never miss a story and help us do more work like this by going to the real news.com/donate and become a supporter today. Once again, I’m Mel er and with all the love and solidarity in my heart, thanks for sticking around. We’ll see you next time.

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Mel Buer is a staff reporter for The Real News Network, covering U.S. politics, labor, and movements and the host of The Real News Network Podcast. Her work has been featured in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Nation, and others. Prior to joining TRNN, she worked as a freelance reporter covering Midwest labor struggles, including reporting on the 2021 Kellogg's strike and the 2022 railroad workers struggle. In the past she has reported extensively on Midwest protests and movements during the 2020 uprising and is currently researching and writing a book on radical media for Or Books. Follow her on Twitter or send her a message at mel@therealnews.com