Critics of the prison industrial complex have long noted the system’s failure to properly rehabilitate those who are locked away in its bowels. Christina Merryman and Ameena Deramous return to Rattling the Bars for the second part of a two-part interview on the reality facing prisoners in Maryland’s only women’s correctional facility.
Studio Production: David Hebden
Post-Production: Cameron Granadino
Transcript
The following is a rushed transcript and may contain errors. A proofread version will be made available as soon as possible.
Mansa Musa:
Welcome to Rattling Bars here on The Real News Network. I’m your host, Mansa Musa. Last week, we published part one of our deep dive into the conditions for incarcerated women in the State of Maryland. I spoke with my guests, Christina Merryman and Ameena Deramous, both formerly incarcerated, about life on the inside for incarcerated women in the state.
Today, we’re going to look at part two of that conversation. I spoke with Christina and Ameena about what it is like for women who are returning home or trying to return home from prison. Here’s part two of that conversation.
Welcome back to Rattling the Bars, Christina and Ameena. We was talking about how do we maintain our sanity in the face of the most arduous conditions in prison? And y’all made the observation that in terms of how women’s [inaudible 00:01:11] being ran, it’s almost like it’s a whole nother colony. It’s outside of Maryland. It’s somewhere else in the Third World country, for lack of better description.
But what I want to talk about now is, okay, we recognize that in order to maintain our sanity under those types of conditions, we have to find a purpose. We have to find something to live for, and whatever that is, we have to find it, and we had to make a commitment to that. I was telling y’all I was litigious when I was in the Maryland prison system, and I got so bad with them that I shut down one time, me and another guy shut down the whole… We was up in Hagerstown, which is where they had a correctional facility. And we had found so many inmate grievances complaints that we shut down the whole 8:00 to 4:00 shift and the 4:00 to 12:00 shift because so many witnesses was coming in from them two shifts from doing abusive things towards prisoners. Needless to say that that didn’t sit well with the administration, and ultimately I found myself back in max eventually because of that.
But in terms of that whole experience, it was hard for me to stay focused because I knew… I said, “Well, any day they’re going to come and get me, take me in the hole and beat me,” because that’s how litigious I was, and I knew they were abusive.
But when y’all were describing some of the things that going on in the women’s cut and how the officers are, how did it impact? And y’all talk about how it impacted y’all and how y’all was able to, like you say Kristen, you was a social butterfly, so that was your way of maintaining your sanity to maintain your social skills. And I mean, you was saying in your situation, your thing was to be litigious, that if okay, you ain’t like it, you try to find a way to resolve it through the legal means. Well, not everybody like that. Talk about the impact that this has on the women in general, some of the problems that you see going on in that environment as a result of the way the women’s cut is being ran. We go with you first, Christina.
Christina Merryman:
So the problem starts with the administration. There is none.
Mansa Musa:
At Chippendale [inaudible 00:03:45]?
Christina Merryman:
Chippendale, I don’t believe is there anymore. I don’t even know who the warden is. When I left, I couldn’t tell you who the warden was. They went through four of them within a two-month time period, I believe.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Yes.
Christina Merryman:
There was no administration at one point. You couldn’t get anything done. I was a peer specialist. So, when I say I was a social butterfly, I helped and spoke with a lot of other sisters within the facility and mentored a bunch of people with education and issues that they were having. And no matter what we tried to accomplish, we hit a wall because we couldn’t go anywhere with it because there was nowhere to go because there’s no administration. There’s no one to help, and it’s impossible.
Mansa Musa:
Talk about that a minute. Talk about why is it that in this environment that we had this type of abuse that’s going on in the State of Maryland, and it seems like nobody’s talking about because… I know about because I’ve been in that space, but you don’t hear the drumbeat of women being abused, women being psychologically traumatized, women being forced into such a insane state that they substance abuse is high, mental illness is high. Talk about these things.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
So what I would like for you to think about is the system. We think that the system is not working, but it’s working exactly that way they would like for it to work.
Mansa Musa:
Come on. Come on.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
It’s supposed to be for rehabilitation, but there is none, right? You have to want that in yourself. Right? I’m grateful that I went in there from the service as an adult because those children or those ladies who have issues bigger than mine, more than mine, just like mine, who aren’t as strong, who don’t have as big of a support, they’re hurting.
Mansa Musa:
Mm-hmm. No chance.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
As if we’re not coming back out here on the streets.
Mansa Musa:
Come on.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
They’re treating us as if we’re not returning. At some point, everybody’s going to realize who’s in charge. We’re coming back out here.
Mansa Musa:
That’s right.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
And we’re either going to be better or we’re going to be worse. And if we’re sitting down and that’s your opportunity to help us get better, help us to get better. Give us the classes. Give us the counseling. Give us what we need. Right? It’s not a… I’m saying it’s not a… It is a moneymaker.
Mansa Musa:
That’s right.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Right? If those women are in there getting high and none of us leave, how’s it coming in? It’s a moneymaker, right?
Mansa Musa:
Mm-hmm.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
So, then you have someone who has an addiction. We don’t have any programs other than AA and NA. And I’m not saying that those are not good programs.
Mansa Musa:
No, I got you.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
I’m saying we don’t have a program for people who have those issues. We have people that are bringing those things in. And then, when the ladies leave and they die because they’ve tried something real because they have that anti, their body is filled with Suboxone.
Mansa Musa:
Right. Right.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
And then, when you get out there and you get a really good something, what’s going to happen? There are several women who don’t have their GEDs, but if the list is long but the classes are empty, that doesn’t make any sense. If you have to be pre-released to take a class, then you’re not helping everyone. They’re not giving us the help. And that’s intentional.
Mansa Musa:
Yeah.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
That’s not by mistake. That’s intentional. Everything that’s done is intentional.
Mansa Musa:
And I want to beat that point right there because as you said, and I want our audience to understand this here. We’re talking about, and it is important to everybody that listen to this and look at this podcast, it’s important to understand this here. In the Maryland system, correction system, the Department of Public Safety and Correctional Service, you have what we talked about earlier, Code of Maryland regulations. And in the Code of Maryland regulations, it outlines the policies and procedures for how the institutions in the State of Maryland is going to be ran. Now, how the men’s institutions going to be ran versus how the women’s institutions. It’s uniformity associated with the policies and procedures on paper, in theory. It fluctuates, as well, in men’s prison. Only difference is you have different institutions, but it fluctuates, as well. They ignore rules and regulations.
But in this case, I want the audience to understand that as these women sit here, we have two women sitting here. Both of them was in the Maryland House of Corrections. One, both of them at some point in time because of their time supposed to been eligible for a security reduction. Both of them, according to their sentence, supposed to been able to get from medium, if they was medium security when they went in, they’ll go from medium security to minimum security to pre-release prior to being released. And the purpose of that is that to help them acclimate themselves back into society. If I’m in pre-release, and I’m working on the street, and I can save some money, I can get my social skills back up. I can deprogram myself. But in y’all cases, and I think you’ve spoken to this, Christina, and talk about this. You said that you was on work release and that not only was you not allowed with your family, but you had to pay rent.
Christina Merryman:
Yes.
Mansa Musa:
Talk about that.
Christina Merryman:
When I’m on work release, the only contact with any people that I had was the people that I worked with, which was still associated with… I worked for Maryland Correctional Enterprises, and during Maryland Correctional Enterprises during work, which was also, it was a great opportunity, but the officers would come and do their checks to make sure I was at work. They would come and search my desk, pat me down during work hours, which is very degrading, but I would have to pay room and board and transportation fees. I believe it was approximately… It was like 690 to $720 a month depending on how many trips they took me back and forth to work. I had no special privileges.
Mansa Musa:
And let’s start right there. How much money you say? 600? Now, you can go from here to New Orleans on a round-trip ticket for that much money and probably do to Mardi Gras at the same time.
Christina Merryman:
Mm-hmm.
Mansa Musa:
How far was you going?
Christina Merryman:
Three miles to and from.
Mansa Musa:
Six miles. 600 something. And that-
Christina Merryman:
That was also for my housing. I had to pay to live at the institution. No special room. Not guaranteed to have a room by myself. Yes.
Mansa Musa:
And we recognize this. I did an interview with some people from down in Alabama, and they doing outsourcing. They doing convict leasing. But the reality is, in that system, it’s so barbaric that I would prefer to go work in some inhumane conditions than be put in a section of the jail where it’s fight or flight. So, you understand what I’m saying? This is the alternative in your situation. The preference is you prefer to be able to get treated like everybody else, but under the circumstances you would take… And this is an example of the lesser of the [inaudible 00:12:42]. I mean talk about, you just got out.
Christina Merryman:
Mm-hmm.
Mansa Musa:
And talk about the fact that they didn’t give you the opportunity to prepare yourself and God willing, that you have been able to make the adjustment. But how would that have looked if they would’ve gave you the opportunity to get work release, make you some money, have access to your family, hug your mother, kiss your children? How would that, because remember, this ain’t something I’m making up. These are the things that men get.
Everything I just outlined, men get under the same policies and procedures. That’s why I’m so outraged at this. I’m so outraged at it because I’m sitting here looking at you and both of y’all and you have family. And why your children don’t deserve to be hugged and kissed? Why your children don’t deserve to give you the right to be able to have a weekend with your family when the rules and regulations say this, and the State of Maryland is ignoring it when it comes to y’all? Talk about that.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Intentional. Did I say that already?
Mansa Musa:
Yeah. You can say that a hundred times.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Intentional. If they don’t want you to do something, you’re not going to be able to do it. If they don’t want you to do it, they’re not following the rules and regulations. Everybody does what they want to do. There is no oversight and… I’m sorry. If the administration acknowledges all of the things that are going on within the institution, then that falls on the admin, right?
Mansa Musa:
Mm-hmm. That’s right.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
So, then why would they admit to the staff members bringing in drugs? Why would they admit to the physical abuse of stuff of law, the young ladies who are transgendering, right? We have male officers that will beat those incarcerated individuals because, “You think you’re a man? You want to be a man? All right, I got something for you.”
Mansa Musa:
Yeah, that’s [inaudible 00:15:13].
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Women get raped, too.
Mansa Musa:
Yeah. Yeah.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
But if you check or if you ask, how many of those have been reported that have gotten outside of the institution, right? It’s intentional. They don’t want us to be that ready. And I am being honest when I tell you that I wasn’t prepared. I wasn’t prepared because I didn’t qualify for any of the classes. I wasn’t prepared because the classes that I could have gotten into, depending on which staff member was the person to put you in those classes, I didn’t get into those classes.
Some of the staff members didn’t like me to the point where I didn’t get my ID when I left. There are certain things that you’re supposed to leave the institution with. You’re supposed to leave the institution with your R card.
Mansa Musa:
Yeah. Yeah.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
I went to go get my state ID. I’ve been covered my entire incarceration, even on my housing unit, I’m covered. I was told, take your [inaudible 00:16:16] off. You got to take that thing off is what I was told. And because I refused to do that and said I was going to talk to the warden, they told me, “Oh, it’s really like a two or three week process. You’re probably not going to be here, so just get yours on the outside.” “Okay, no problem.” When I left, I went to the MVA to get my state ID and they didn’t give me my R card.
So, you get this brown envelope with everything that you’re supposed to have.
Mansa Musa:
Yup. Your Social Security. Yup.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
You get a brown envelope with everything that you are supposed to be given when you leave that institution. And I didn’t leave with everything that I was supposed to leave with.
Mansa Musa:
Intentionally?
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Intentionally.
Mansa Musa:
Yeah.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Right? So, thank God, one of my friends that works at Prepare came to get me and was able to pull up my file off of her phone and show that I had been accepted into a place, and they were able to use that paperwork to show that I had an address. So, I was able to use paperwork from one of my friends that supported me, that came to get me. What about the people that don’t have support? When you wonder why people are going back, it’s because they’re not prepared when you put them out there.
Mansa Musa:
Right.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Right? We have a really good reentry person that’s on A East. We have a couple of really good phenomenal case managers, but they can’t do what they’re supposed to do. How is that?
Mansa Musa:
Yeah.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Why is that?
Mansa Musa:
Why is that? Why is that?
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Why is that? Why are they limited?
Mansa Musa:
Right.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
We have someone that is a reentry person in the facility, but I didn’t get to see her until a week or two before I went home. Why did they not give me access to her or her access to me because she’s there to give me what I needed before I left. But someone didn’t put my name on the list, and I didn’t have access. Did you set me up to succeed or to fail?
Mansa Musa:
Oh, it’s no doubt. It is no doubt in my mind that the fact that y’all here today is only by the grace of God. There’s no doubt in my mind because everything y’all say is designed for you to fail. It’s designed like you said, I think you said earlier, Christina, “Don’t let them rent space in your head.” Well, some people got a mansion being written in their head because they don’t have no other choice.
Christina Merryman:
Right.
Mansa Musa:
Some people, this system and the women’s cut, and it’s premeditated on the part of the State of Maryland, and you talking about the governor, Wes Moore, and then you put somebody in the secretary Department of Public Safety that’s responsible for overseeing a prison system. But yet this has been going on since, I think, since the women’s cut been in existence. It hasn’t gotten any better. And the problem, I think, that we really need to recognize is that it’s intentional, and it’s designed to make sure that the women that leave, they leave in a broken state, and they don’t have no choice but to revert back to behavior because like you say, they getting out. So, they don’t have no choice but to revert back to the same behavior and keep this system afloat.
Christina, talk about [inaudible 00:19:50] out and really your process of once you got out and how you started re acclimating yourself back into society. I know you say you’re doing work. Talk about some of the things that you’re doing.
Christina Merryman:
Yeah, so luckily, just to reiterate that a little bit back on what Ameena was saying, I was on work release, and you’d leave with a brown envelope. But when I was on work release, I did not qualify for the reentry classes because I was at work. And so, for me to be able to get my insurance and my ID card, I would have to miss work with a pass. And so, when they gave me a pass for me to get all my insurances and my cards to get all that stuff processed, I would miss work and stay back, and then they wouldn’t show. So, luckily I had documents at home. I was able to, when I got released, I had to go handle everything on my own because the institution didn’t help me get any documents, no insurance, no ID. So, when I was released, luckily enough, my family was able to run me around and take me to get all the documents and all the things I needed.
Mansa Musa:
We have women that don’t have-
Christina Merryman:
They don’t have that, and they don’t have the knowledge. Luckily, I was able to know where I had to go, what I had to do and the websites and the places that I had to visit to get the information I needed to get to accomplish what I need to accomplish. But if they’re not given that information, how do they know when they come home? We’re talking about some of the younger generation that are coming home. What do they do? But luckily, we have certain people that help, and they got support, and they can do it. But now, I work for a non-profit. It’s called Prepare. We help re-entry, and we help incarcerated individuals prepare for their parole and come home with re-entry services. We get them set up with their documents and re-entry facilities or housing places to go. So, I love my job. It’s fantastic.
Mansa Musa:
So, what you been eating? A lot of chicken?
Christina Merryman:
Everything. Everything but ham and turkey. I don’t need no turkey. Not no turkey based products.
Mansa Musa:
How about your transition? First, where are you staying? You got your own place?
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
No. So, fortunately I’m a veteran. So, I’m at McVets.
Mansa Musa:
Okay.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
So, I’m not far from here, but I’m at a veteran’s transitional education and learning training place. That’s good. I’m not working. I’m a little over 30 days out. I have to take care of me.
Mansa Musa:
Oh, yeah.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Seriously. I thought that I was going to hit the ground running. Mm-mm. [inaudible 00:23:03] a little bit too fast, so I am in the process of getting counseling. I’m in the process of figuring me out outside of from behind those walls. I’m learning that I don’t have to fight as hard on the outside as I had to fight on the inside.
Mansa Musa:
Yeah.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Right? To be a Muslim, I had to fight to be a Muslim.
Mansa Musa:
I know. Believe me, I know.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
I had to fight-
Mansa Musa:
Yeah.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
To be a Muslim.
Mansa Musa:
Talk about… Like I told you earlier, I was in Islam when I was incarcerated, and it was Salam vs. Collins. Well, before Salam vs. Collins came out. But Salah versus Collins established the equity as far as Islamic coordinator because you had a Christian chaplain that was regulating all the affairs. So, we wound up getting Islamic coordinator, but before all that came about, like Ramadan, they didn’t have no break fast. No, get up in the morning and break fast. No start to fast. None of that. If the sun set later than the chow line, whatever you had, you had to hold back. And that’s how it was before. But since then, it changed. But how, in your situation because I know that they making it hard. Mainly if you litigious and then you say you have the audacity to say that, “Not only I’m litigious, but I’m also a Muslim woman, Black woman at that.” How was you able to deal with those things?
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
What I’m going to say to you is I never tried to compare one religion to another religion, but I was able to show on way too many times the seven day a week studies for one group and one for this one. Right? Not do for me what you’re doing for them, but recognize the difference. And if you can accommodate, accommodate. Ramadan starts and ends whenever it wants to when you’re in prison.
Mansa Musa:
Oh yeah. I already know.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Right? So, I’m obligated as a Muslim to do Ramadan. So, I had better be prepared to start it when it starts and end it when it ends. Because several times start when they felt like it. We’re not ready today. Y’all aren’t real Muslims anyway. That’s one of the things, fake Muslims. That’s a super-duper word when you’re incarcerated, right? Sleeves. They took our jeans and T-shirts and all these other things and gave us uniforms. And up until the day that I left, they still never gave me long sleeves. So, I always had to wear thermals or long sleeve T-shirts under the short sleeve uniform that I was issued. So, in the summertime I was dressed in layers because they wouldn’t accommodate me. But if I went to work or if a program came in and they gave out a T-shirt, I’d be like, “Hey, can I get a long sleeved T-shirt?” “Absolutely.” But in the prison where I had to be, I couldn’t be accommodated. You’re allowed, according to Kohmar, one religious meal. We barely got that one. But there are other groups that got, before I left, five in one year.
Mansa Musa:
And you know what? And on that note right there, this is the problem that I’m having and that I think our audience need to understand is that taxpayers paying for that, it’s taxpayers’ money that’s keeping this thing that we call a prison industrial complex afloat. This ain’t about a person doing time. This ain’t about a person committing a crime. This is about whether or not you are obeying the law because this is about the law. This ain’t about Ameena. This ain’t about Christina. This ain’t about Man. This is about the law. Now, if you ain’t obeying the law, then you should be held accountable.
And if you taking and intentionally discriminating against people because of their religion, it say you shouldn’t be discriminating against religious or your gender or none of these things. But as you outline, if you transgender, if you accept that identity, if you accept that pronoun and you in the woman’s cut, then they’re going to say, “Well, okay. You a man in a woman’s prison. I can abuse you as such. I’m not recognizing.” But then you don’t have the outcry from the transgender community in society. You understand what I’m saying? Let somebody come up and say something on TV about something that they deem demeaning, and it’s an outcry, but when it come to prison-
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
They don’t want to hear it.
Mansa Musa:
“I’m transgender. I’m in prison. I’m being abused. Help me.” But if I’m on the street, I’m transgender, somebody say use a derogatory term towards me, oh, it’s all, “Yeah.” Or if I’m in society and somebody is Islamic-phobia, it become an outcry. But in the prison system, mainly within the women’s… But talk about this, and both of y’all can weigh on this individual. Talk about the young women because the population in changed. It’s lot more younger. Talk about where you see them at in terms of the impact this is having on them. When I left, we was doing things to try to get control over, but they clicked up blue, red, alphabets. You know what I’m saying? It was like a nightmare in terms of trying to get some things done. We was able to get some things done because we was able to press the issue. But talk about the young ladies.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
So, let me say this. I got a couple of things I want to say because I said intentional. So, let me say two things before I say that. They pit the women against each other, and that’s why we don’t fight together. Right.
Mansa Musa:
Yes.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
So, you have the transgender women, and then you have the women who are not transgender. If they do something to benefit the transgender women, then the women who are not transgender, I’m not saying jealous, but why should they be able to get supplements, and we can’t get supplements? So, we’re unable to come together. So, when I say intentional, they do things to put things in place to make us not be able to come together like that. If we were able to get rehabilitated, you’re never going to be able to do pre-release inside of a prison setting. You’re never going to get what you need.
Mansa Musa:
No.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Right. And if you don’t prepare them to do what they’re supposed to do, if you don’t find an alternative to just incarcerating people, those are our children that are in there. I’ve seen mothers and daughters and granddaughters [inaudible 00:30:51].
Mansa Musa:
Yeah. Three generations.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
I’ve seen families in this place. I’ve seen communities in this place. You’re going to have to find an alternative to that, and you’re going to have to make your… People are paying, like you said, their money for nothing. No one wants to give away money. People complain about how much things cost, and yet you’re giving up money because nothing’s happening. We’re not being taken care of properly, and our children are coming in there because we’re in there. Who’s going to raise my children? Who raised my children? [inaudible 00:31:28]. My family raised my children. But what about someone else who didn’t have that support? There was a bunch of ladies in there with me who didn’t have that support, and their children came in ready for it, ready for whatever, and you can’t raise them then. It’s hard.
Mansa Musa:
Oh, I know.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
These kids are coming in with their grandmothers and aunts and they’re, “I don’t know you because you’ve been in here just as long as… “
Mansa Musa:
Mm-hmm.
Christina Merryman:
Mm-hmm.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Right?
Mansa Musa:
Christine?
Christina Merryman:
It’s sad because I watched so many young kids come in, and they get younger and younger and younger, and it’s so hard to offer any advice because they don’t want to hear it. They know everything. And it’s hard to offer suggestions and directions when they can run wild because there’s no structure. You’re coming to a facility with no structure, no regulation, and you can pretty much run around and do what you want. You get in trouble, there’s really no punishment besides going to a lockup where you can go get what you want. You get more what you want. You just pay more for it. [inaudible 00:33:05]. And it’s sad. I’ve watched the facility run out of toilet paper. I’ve watched the officers throw cookout and barbecues for themselves, but yet we can’t get toilet paper, and they’re having cookouts.
Mansa Musa:
Yeah. Officer appreciation.
Christina Merryman:
Yeah.
Mansa Musa:
Once a month.
Christina Merryman:
It’s so backwards. It really needs help because there’s no way to rehabilitate us. There’s no substance abuse programs. There’s no…
Mansa Musa:
Cognitive.
Christina Merryman:
… cognitive programs. There’s no mental health. There’s no therapy. There’s no proper medication treatments. There’s nothing. I believe it’s in Komar to where when you go in and you get classified, you get put into a job bank or you get put into education.
Mansa Musa:
One of the two.
Christina Merryman:
These young kids are coming in with no GEDs, no high school diplomas. You get mandatory education. You have to go to school.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
But there’s a waiting list.
Christina Merryman:
They’re not going to school. Schools are empty.
Mansa Musa:
As we close out, we’re going to start with you, Ameena.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Mm-hmm.
Mansa Musa:
As we close out, what’s your final thought? What do you want people to know about what we need to do or what you think they should be doing or what their outlook should be on? I mean, finish that out. You ain’t telling nobody, but if you had the ability to convey or tell somebody how to operate in this environment, and I’m talking about policy makers.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Oversight. Most recently an ombudsman bill was introduced. It needs to be taken seriously. They have to interact with the people that are incarcerated. Because if you only deal with the people, the admin or the staff, they’re not going to tell you what’s going on. But we’re out here, and we’re going to talk about these things. There are some of us out here now that are going to talk about these things, so they need to listen to us and take what we’re saying seriously. And even for people who have people incarcerated, when they tell you that something is wrong, something is wrong. Having a family member incarcerated is like having your child in school or your parent in a nursing home. You better check-
Mansa Musa:
That’s right.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
… to make sure that… We’re broken. Right? We’re broken. Help us to be better.
Mansa Musa:
Help us to be better. Christina, you have the last thought.
Christina Merryman:
I wish that the officers within the institutions would really wake up and do their job. Just do your job and do it the right way, and treat us as we’re people, and help us rehabilitate ourselves. And I will absolutely piggyback on Ameena to check on us. Like I understand we broke the law. We did something wrong.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Yes.
Christina Merryman:
We made a bad choice, but we are still a person, and we are still within a facility that we are trying to get better because I will tell you that probably over 90% of us are actually trying to get better.
Mansa Musa:
There you have it. The Real News, Rattling the Bars. Sincerely, I appreciate y’all coming in and rattling the bars with me today. I want to make sure that our audience understand this, that we are talking about human beings. We’re talking about somebody’s mother. We’re talking about somebody’s daughter. We’re talking about somebody’s granddaughter. We’re talking about real live human beings, and all they asking to be treated like human beings. And more importantly, be treated like everybody else. What the rules and regulations say, if I violate them, you going to punch me, then let me get the benefit of those things that I’m supposed to get. And I’m telling you this, and I’m going to direct this to Governor Wes Moore, oversight.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Absolutely.
Christina Merryman:
Yes.
Veronica (Ameena) Deramous:
Absolutely.
Mansa Musa:
Thank you.
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